Curse

snaek · Nov 19, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

I still support making page filling the books retroactive, but I wonder if it even feasible anymore. Now that a lot of people have partially filled books, how would Anet untangle which missions were completed prior to the update and which were done after?

I fear this ship has sailed.

rollbak lawl

that way
the ppl who did missions 1 or 2 times within the past week will have their missions go unrewarded
and will get to kno wut it feels like
compared to those that did missions 20 or 30 times over the past 3 years

and mstarfire...
wtf!? who cares bout fairness??!?
ys it that even a question?

many ppl r complaining because they actually care bout the state of gw
and they want to see the game as good as it can be

all i see is that anet gave u a shiny penny
and u think all of gw's problems magically went away

new ppl tend to not notice the big picture
veterans have been in the game so long they can see the big picture
maybe thats y u cant comprehend y some ppl r complainin

and personally i dun care bout fairness either...
but only because i think anet effed that all up beyond all repair

Frozy · Nov 19, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

All I see is a small handful of greedy, vocal, childish idiots who are pissing themselves because they didn't get a fat faction paycheck when the update hit, the kind of people who are upset over every update, every skill revision, every festival event, EVERYTHING, because it doesn't benefit you directly while screwing the other guy.

Honestly, GW2 won't miss you. I won't miss you, and Anet won't miss you.

Again, please explain where's the "greed" here.
I repeat :
We don't want more than what we're entitled to.
we don't want anything that "benefits us directly while screwing the other guy", as you put it.
We want equal, fair rewards, something that could be done quite easily.

The only greed i see here comes from your side, the only "reason" you ask us to shut up is that you don't like what you see.
Nobody will miss your trolling either.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 19, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozy

We don't want more than what we're entitled to.

Where in the EULA(The rules of the game) did it say that any changes in the game would automatically entitle long time players restitution for said changes? Fair or not fair I think it is time for people to accept things as they are. If it is such a game changer for some I am sorry, but it is time to move on. That's just my opinion.

Snow Bunny · Nov 20, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

This update was amazing, ok?

Get that - they did something right, and bugger me if I didn't resinstall the game yesterday because this update looked amazing, and was very nice.

Anet did something grand; they could've done something stupid like make KoaBD account wide or something, but no, this update was very well thought out.

In fact, it's well-thought out enough to make me worry why people are complaining about this. No, they didn't fix some PvP imbalances; this was a PvE update - they specified as such and thus far I have noticed it was well coded with no new lag or bugs.

When you buy a meal and you get a free cake, do you complain that you didn't get frosting on it? No, of course not.

Stop complaining and go play. It's quite remarkable how petty many of you are. MStarfire is being rude, but he/she is valiantly arguing the correct point, that is, this update was very nice and you should be grateful about it.

pumpkin pie · Nov 20, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

rollbak lawl

that way
the ppl who did missions 1 or 2 times within the past week will have their missions go unrewarded
and will get to kno wut it feels like
compared to those that did missions 20 or 30 times Bold 1 over the past 3 years

and mstarfire...
wtf!? who cares bout fairness??!? Bold 2
ys it that even a question?

many ppl r complaining because they actually care bout the state of gw
and they want to see the game as good as it can be

all i see is that anet gave u a shiny penny
and u think all of gw's problems magically went away

new ppl tend to not notice the big picture
veterans have been in the game so long they can see the big picture
maybe thats y u cant comprehend y some ppl r complainin

and personally i dun care bout fairness either...
but only because i think anet effed that all up beyond all repair

Bold 1: Honestly, who the hell do mission 20 - 30 times if that mission don't have an end chest of significant rewards or have some other benefits like a Voltic Spears or Factions Points? be honest, you would do Zen Daijun's Mission 30 times? and then 30 times again in HM? anyone at all done Great Northern Walls or Minister Cho's Estate or Blacktide Den 30 times in HM? (on one character)

Bold 2: lol your post obviously are trying to seek "fairness"?? no?

Cluebag · Nov 20, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Up until recently, this thread did have a healthy back and forth of ideas and opinion. The goal of the trolls here are to destroy the thread with raving and insults and otherwise disruptive tactics, so if this thread is closed, the trolls win cause the mods let them win. Hopefully this isn't the case and the thread will remain active, the trolls will be banished, and civil discourse continues and hopefully greater understanding will be had by all.

For the people who are able to continue reading this while enjoying their bans, something you might want to consider is that people who actually care for the welfare of the game will actually have criticisms from time to time. If shortcomings and failures on behalf of any company aren't addressed and happen to fall on deaf ears, well, we know what happens to those companies. People who are paying attention will throw the bullshit flag on occasion, because a perceived foul has taken place and warrants a review, with the understanding that potential problems can be addressed and resolved.

To use a lame analogy, because that is what forum posters do, I'll tell a little story here. There's this restaurant my wife and I enjoy, they make an awesome mongolian filet, and their crispy beef is great as well. We bring our family and out of town friends here, and we get take out from them regularly. One time, the take out we brought home was nearly inedible. Having been accustomed to a standard of excellence, we called to ask what the deal was, had they got a new chef, had the recipe changed, what gives? It turns out that they did in fact have a new chef and they apologized for the poor quality of food, and to encourage us to return, they offered us a credit towards our next meal. Now while that was a nice gesture, it wasn't necessary. The apology and explanation from the owner went a long way, and we've since been back several times and continue to enjoy taking our business there.

Had the restaurant been this bullshit outfit that we were just going to try for a change, which we had no investment in, and had their food been mediocre or even terrible, we wouldn't have even bothered wasting time with telling them that their food sucked, cause we wouldn't have ever gone back regardless. Because we previously have had pleasant dining experiences with the original restaurant and were concerned when there was a significant change to the excellence with which we were accustomed, we felt it was necessary to let them know of our experience, so that they had adequate feedback with which they could do a variety of things. They could have ignored it and told us to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off, they could have offered to pay for the meal, they could have explained why the food was different, they could have done several things. Had it been the former, well, that would have been the last time we took our business there, but since they did something more along the lines of the latter, but more importantly, to me, they demonstrated that they weren't above making mistakes and readily took accountability for it, in my book, that goes a long way.

The implications that, as customers, we should take what we're given, be thankful, and stfu is folly. By that rationale, if Anet decided that your particular toon's head needed to be remodeled and what the remodeling resulted in was your character's head now resembling a large chunk of human excrement, you should, by your definition, be thankful that Anet is even doing updates anymore and shouldn't be complaining cause it doesn't affect the economy or anyone else for that matter, or most importantly, me.

Your clever and well thought out arguments against criticisms, such as “qq” and other petty insults, along with your severe impairment when it comes to reading comprehension, only hurts yourself and your gang of trolls, whom also seem to suffer from malignant narcissism. To suggest that anyone who “complains” is a greedy ingrate, along with a bunch of other ignorant, spiteful crap, and to imply that we should be thankful for every single last crumb Anet offers without question, well, all I can really say is that you need to go out and get a new bag to hold your clues, because yours has a hole in it and you've lost some.

Hyper Cutter · Nov 20, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

but rather in order to cater to those who want everything handed to them.

So "handed to them" means "want the reward you get for completing something they've already done"?

MStarfire · Nov 20, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

So "handed to them" means "want the reward you get for completing something they've already done"?

They got the reward as it existed at the time.

Lady Lozza · Nov 20, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

I'm sorry, I must not be up on the "new math". How is 120,000 "nearly" 1,000,000? Some trick of calculus?

Firstly "maths" is short for mathematics, hence the "s" which is used in a fairly large chunk of the English speaking world.

Secondly if you had read my post you would know that I was working on the assumption that a player, with 8 characters, has already got protector and guardian on all 8. 8 HM books at 120k = 960k, exactly 40k short of 1 million, or 4%. I'm sure that most people would agree that 960k is not that much short of 1 million, hence the "nearly".

I have not taken into account NM books which these characters would also earn at 60k faction (I think) each.

MStarfire · Nov 20, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Firstly "maths" is short for mathematics, hence the "s" which is used in a fairly large chunk of the English speaking world.

Secondly if you had read my post you would know that I was working on the assumption that a player, with 8 characters, has already got protector and guardian on all 8. 8 HM books at 120k = 960k, exactly 40k short of 1 million, or 4%. I'm sure that most people would agree that 960k is not that much short of 1 million, hence the "nearly".

I have not taken into account NM books which these characters would also earn at 60k faction (I think) each.

I have an MS in Mathematics. I was referring to this.

And you were working on a lousy assumption. I apologize for misunderstanding your math, however as we can easily establish, people hate grind. I doubt there's very many people out there who have done Protector and Guardian work on eight characters.

I'm not claiming this to be fact, I'm sure there ARE a handful of people out there who have done this. But I doubt it's a very large handful.

Besides, as I said before. They got the reward as it stood when they accomplished their feats. That should be good enough.

DreamWind · Nov 20, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

In fact, it's well-thought out enough to make me worry why people are complaining about this. No, they didn't fix some PvP imbalances; this was a PvE update - they specified as such and thus far I have noticed it was well coded with no new lag or bugs.

Actually, the fact that they didn't touch PvP is part of the reason I still haven't reinstalled...but that is off topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Stop complaining and go play. It's quite remarkable how petty many of you are. MStarfire is being rude, but he/she is valiantly arguing the correct point, that is, this update was very nice and you should be grateful about it.

I have to disagree (which is odd because I don't think I've ever disagreed with your posts lol). What IS the correct point? My points are that the update was unfair and didn't complete what it set out to do. I still haven't seen the points legitimately refuted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

And you were working on a lousy assumption. I apologize for misunderstanding your math, however as we can easily establish, people hate grind. I doubt there's very many people out there who have done Protector and Guardian work on eight characters.

You talk about assumptions then proceed to make the assumption that people hate grind. As far as I know, there are several popular games on the market full of grind that people are willing and ready to pay to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

Besides, as I said before. They got the reward as it stood when they accomplished their feats. That should be good enough.

So people who did the missions 8 times get the same rewards as those who did it once. Yea sounds good enough to me. All people are asking for is to be able to turn in for the titles they have. I don't see you or anybody elses problem with that other than the fact that you need something to troll about.

aaje vhanli · Nov 20, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I almost want to get in.

Avarre · Nov 20, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

If PvE players get a bonus reward for things they've already done, PvP players should get a ZKey for every 5k faction obtained before the addition of ZKeys.

After all, it's only fair for those with prior accomplishments.

ps: Where is your economy now?

Vaal 84 · Nov 20, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If PvE players get a bonus reward for things they've already done, PvP players should get a ZKey for every 5k faction obtained before the addition of ZKeys.

Spot on Avarre.

Gill Halendt · Nov 20, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

I agree about Z-Keys. yet I see why they didn't make the Zaishen title track retroactive back when it was introduced: they had no way to count how many keys you could have got BEFORE it and then distribute points accordingly (same as with Party Animals items), while they CAN say wether you've done a mission or not now.

Avarre · Nov 20, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

I agree about Z-Keys. yet I see why they didn't make the Zaishen title track retroactive back when it was introduced: they had no way to count how many keys you could have got BEFORE it and then distribute points accordingly (same as with Party Animals items), while they CAN say wether you've done a mission or not now.

Except, you know, the faction counter. Though it doesn't take into the account the millions lost by any serious player to the faction cap before that.

What my example should be saying to you is that players can stop complaining. Much more skillful (arguably) and time-invested titles were not given retroactive advantages.

Gill Halendt · Nov 20, 2008, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Except, you know, the faction counter.

I see, my bad, I was thinking about the Zaishen Title Track - there's no way for them t know how many Z-Chests you've opened before the introduction of the title - not the keys themeselves. Sorry for misunderstanding your comment.

BTW yes, no reason to keep complaining. I doubt anything will change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Much more skillful (arguably) and time-invested titles were not given retroactive advantages.

Now let's not turn this into another PvP vs PvE thread. I know a lot of ranked PvP players who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. So don't assume PvP-related stuff necessarily requires more skill or time please...

upier · Nov 20, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If PvE players get a bonus reward for things they've already done, PvP players should get a ZKey for every 5k faction obtained before the addition of ZKeys.

After all, it's only fair for those with prior accomplishments.

I spent all my Balths faction on weapon/skill unlocks.
Does that mean I should get Z-Keys also?

On-topic:
The books not being retroactive just means I'll never get the reward from any book because I sure as hell won't be doing THAT again.

Avarre · Nov 20, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

So don't assume PvP-related stuff necessarily requires more skill or time please...

I think we can agree several million faction is more investment than completing some missions.

Gill Halendt · Nov 20, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I think we can agree several million faction is more investment than completing some missions.

I think we can agree that three years spent going through 4 games with 15 characters is probably even more time consuming than 3 years spent repeating the Zaishen Training on the Isle of the Nameless or playing gimmick builds in AB or RA...